EDIT: cut out some of the bad info. Al of these use MVJ-3 jacks for patching, which is something I wasn’t familiar with since I mostly do audio. Still, VERY cheap used, even with overseas shipping. Here’s another one:
I don’t know how much MVJ-3 cables cost; I do know there are BNC to MVJ-3 adapters, so using one of these patchbays with cheap Monoprice BNC cables could be a really viable option.
EDIT: “midsize plug” is the patch cable format and they’re really expensive, of course. No sruprise considering those patchbays still retail for $1000-$2000 if you get them from a regular vendor instead of eBay.
Beyond impedance problems (which really can start to stack up), a patch bay set-up with audio bays can introduce termination issues as well (depending on what gear you have and how you set it all up). That being said, there seem to be plenty of examples of people using audio patch bays without trouble though, so it can definitely work.
FWIW, I’ve set up a video patch bay at a space I help run, using professional WECO video patch bays. I found some Canare units for next to nothing on Ebay and they came with the patch cables. I also built a lot of the backend cabling myself.
My experience with it has been mixed. Spent a lot of time setting it all up only to realize after using it for a while all the improvements I need to make to it. Really, now, I am likely to strip it down to something much simpler since I am mostly using my LZX modular rig these days (and most guests doing visuals bring their own gear).
Thanks so much for all the suggestions and tips/info here. Even if I don’t personally end up using them all right now, this kind of stuff is invaluable for folks getting into video work in the future. I spent ages reading back on all the old threads on scanlines, and it’s a great resource. It would be awesome to develop an increasingly lively online community around video art, as I have tons of questions ha.
Buying stuff from overseas isn’t a huge deal for me for the right thing, but the issue is generally customs/import fees. That can slap an extra 30% onto the total cost, which is tricky.
@sean I don’t really understand the impendance thing with regards to video anyway if I’m honest. My knowledge of engineering/physics is limited. Similarly: when you say termination issues, do you mean that it would eventually just drop out?
For now that 8x8 Matrix switcher I got, combined with the Edirol v4 and the inputs/outputs on my other gear should give me enough flexibility, but I’m going to consider the other patching solutions in the future.
p.s. That setup is awesome! Is it a live music space or something similar? I’m trying to find ways I can stack some of my gear, but most of it doesn’t have rack ears, and all the circuit bent devices have buttons and knobs all over the tops too which makes it tricky.
Yes, a live music/performance space: Betalevel. Though it has effectively been a studio/storage space for last ~21 months since hosting public events in a poorly ventilated basement has not really been a good idea.
My technical knowledge is a bit limited too. The way I understand it (which could be wrong) is that impedance mismatches are a little like connecting two pipes of different sizes. Whereas termination issues (generally some variation of having a cable connected to basically nothing) are like having a pipe that ends at a brick wall.
The first can often mostly be ignored, causing minor reflections that are not visible unless you’re running long cables or have lots of connections (as one would indeed have in a patch bay). Whereas, depending on device, an improperly terminated output can create serious distortion issues on other outputs.
One doesn’t typically run into too many termination problems until setting up something like a patch bay, where things are perma-connected. At least I never did.
This is the video patchbay I have which I bought off eBay a little over a year ago. It’s in one of my racks and works great in my setup. Sorry I don’t have a pic handy. Only problem is that the cables can be tricky to find but I got lucky on eBay with those as well.
Still waiting on a few cables to arrive to patch in some more of the inputs, but other than that it is sweeet. I am half tempted to get a second one to allow me to do some REALLY crazy routing, but that would be overkill. I might keep an eye out mind.
…i see a VMX410 on the first shelf left in there - do you have a manual for that? - i have the machine, but unfortunately no manual, so the machine is mostly unusable…
…yeah - that is about what i thought it would look like…
…at the moment i am trying to build a setup for live-streaming ( ambioSonics live - Glockenbachwerkstatt München - YouTube ) and parallel onsite video planing to fit most of the stuff into (Thomann) racks for easier transport and faster setup - like i did with the synths and stuff for our monthly sessions: http://www.ambiosonics.de/ …
Well spotted on the 410. I’m not sure about the manual. I will take a looksee! I only use it as a TBC, so haven’t futzed about with the wipes or anything.
…regarding portability: i think rather sooner than later we all want to go out there and show what we‘re doing with the direct feedback that only a live-audience can provide…
Aye. Don’t get me wrong - I play live. The rig above you linked above though is my studio setup, and not designed or intended to be portable for shows. For playing live I take select pieces depending on what visuals I am doing, rather than the full booner. In those scenarios, the Edirol v4 tends to be the main mixer, since I don’t need complex routing. If I do though, the Kramer switch coupled with some other gear is fine to take - it’s just a 1u rack unit I think, which isn’t unusual. In all honesty, even if I was to take my entire analogue video rig, it would still be more portable than the shit I end up having to take when I tour with the bands I play music in (!). There are more portable Kramer switches available though if you need complex routing with buffered multiple outs. Just a matter of keeping an eye out for them.
…yep, that is what i‘ll most probably be doing too - tear apart the bigger stationary setup…
…nevertheless i am trying to plan and build my ‚studio‘-setup also mainly rackmounted (eg. a couple of Panasonic ES-10s as TBCs and circuit bent video-mixers mounted onto rack shelves) to hopefully make it easier for me to switch between the studio- and the live-setup by just grabbing and re-plugging pre-wired racks…we‘ll see only later if it actually works out as i plan it now…
…i just remembered: somewhere i read that there are several TBC-modes in the VMX410 and also some kind of a reset code for the TBC…if that is really the case having a manual might also be useful to you (unless you know those codes by heart)…
We only convert to XLR for long distances, that is over 3 meters up to 12 meters (then we use a 20m BNC cable. The same dirty cable that was used by Boiler Room Berlin, by the way).
We had a show last night where 2 CRT TVs were connected with adapter cables like these:
XLR cables are supposedly better at shielding the signal from interferences than composite cables (and most of our composite cables are very low-quality). We often play in spaces filled with electric devices of all kinds so we think about that. On the other hand, any kind of adapter may introduce issues on its own, and adapters quality will vary, so that’s another potential issue. BNC cables would be better on long distances but they are expensive (and BNC-RCA adapters are often shitty…see here or here). When you are on a low budget it’s a bit of the lesser of the evils.
(I was re-reading this thread and I noticed I never replied this, sorry)
